Monday, February 07, 2005

Education vs. Early Motherhood.

I had a slight feminist moment today. It was during the delayed broadcast of Elder Russel M. Nelson's talk at a CES fireside.

I actually really enjoyed his talk - and cried when he spoke of his wife, and how she was more beautiful to him now then she was then. That's what we all aspire for in life, isn't it?

What got me, however, was when he talked about how it was bad that the number of unmarried people are increasing, and the age in which people get married are also increasing. And if I remember correctly, he also mentioned the decreasing number of children being born into this world.

He also spoke of how he had spent years and years getting certified (my does he have a long list of credentials!) before he sent out his first bill. By then he had had 5 of his 10 children. He counseled that women should support their husbands to become all that they can be, no matter how long it takes.

The first thing that popped into my mind was "What about the women?" If the men should spend as long as they need to get educated and develop their potential, shouldn't the women do that too? Are they supposed to be child-bearing at that time and deprived of that opportunity? Is getting married later and prolonging child-birth just a little really a bad thing?

It is a conflicting subject for me to think about. We learn about the divine role of women in church. And I do believe that for many women, their divine calling might be to be a matriarch in zion. When it becomes my turn, I am sure that I will be anxious to start my own fammily. I have spent most of my life wanting to be a mother. I do believe it is true that lasting joy comes from the family.

At the same time, there's a part of me that knows and understands importance of gaining a solid education and how that is essential to one's identity. What if an undergraduate degree is not enough? Can someone who is being left behind by her husband in his pursuit of knowledge be truly happy? Will you say that it is "bad" or "wrong" for a woman to wait till she's 32 before she starts her family? Or if she chooses not to have one at all? Is developing potential through education or a profession not seeking to build the kingdom of God?

I realize that it does not have to be a dichotomy. A woman can still have children and pursue an education/career. How women are capable of multi-tasking like that and still come out on top is beyond me, but I admire their persistance nonetheless. Also to be admired are the women who realize that learning doesn't stop after school. I hope I never forget that.

There may be a point in my life when I will have to decide where my priorities lie. How much self-sacrifice is required of us?

I don't have the answers yet. Just more questions. Elder Nelson did say that prophets and apostles always teach the rule, not the exception. He said that Heavenly Father does recognize that in this imperfect world, the exceptions do exist. I guess it's just a matter of discerning which the exceptions are and what to do in such an event.

In the meantime, it'd probably be a good idea to stop thinking about how women deserve to be educated and go to bed so I will make it to class tomorrow. After all, I wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.

21 Comments:

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2/08/2005 07:29:00 AM

Thats a hard one isnt it. I know i would love to have a family someday. But then I really would like to keep doing things. It is conflicting sometimes when they say be educated but then they tell us to do this. But we all have to make our own choices. This is just one of them. It personally seems wierd to me for people to marry so young. My mum and Dad were about 27 when they got married and then 29 when they started having kids. so yea who knows... 

Posted by e

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/08/2005 09:43:00 AM

Funny thing about this topic is that my dad and I got into another argument revolving around it. I want to go to grad school right now, but I don't want to get a "real world" job because of the commitment. He finds my schooling a waste of money because it does not have a locked down field that I could go into. Disclaimer: I know he loves me and just wants me safe and happy. The problem is that he doesn't know how to deal with an academic daughter. All of my siblings are involved with vocational or actual job training. I am not. This causes great worry for him... oh heck... I think I'll just blog about this too.

At any rate, families are greatly important, but at the same time, education and growth are also important. Marriage is one of the most vital steps in our progression to rejoining Heavenly Father, but I know that He truly understands our hearts. He knows our true intents when it comes to the things we choose to do in this life. When I pondered on that topic this morning, I realized that I'm sure He wanted His companion to be educated too. Why wouldn't He? It brings a smile to my face whenever I think of our Heavenly Mother. She must be an amazing woman.

Looking at the eternal perspective, I see that education is paramount. It is difficult for us, as Telestial beings to even imagine what it must be like. I hope Justin posts on this, because his views on education are outstanding. I wish more guys were like that. Anyway... now that this has turned into something long I'll end it on this note: education has never been a bad thing when used in the light of the Gospel. As the Holy Spirit as one's guide, an education can be the most wonderful thing on this earth next to family. 

Posted by Mandie

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/08/2005 04:55:00 PM

Well... if you want a guys point of view, then heres what I have to say... Education is important... but not necessary... I strongly support the statement "The greatest calling on earth is that of a mother" I don't know who said it, but I'm sure you've all heard it. Women should have an education and a means to support themselves... but it isn't a necessity... worse comes to worse, the man in the family dies and the woman is left to support the children and herself alone... Call me controlling... but a Woman should NOT be pursuing a career while the husband is perfectly capable of supplying all the NEEDS. I grew up in a family far from privileged... I'm not ashamed to say it, and I don't expect any sympathy, because I feel I'm much better off than anyone I knew growing up outside or in the church. I feel that the main reason for me turning out the way I did is because I have a mother who never had to work when her children needed her... We developed confidence beyond what we realized (and am still realizing as I write this). Don't get me wrong though... education is important... but motherhood is something much greater than any other temporal thing on this world.
--
Keepin' it believably unreal,
Mike 

Posted by Michael

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/09/2005 11:06:00 AM

Mike, your comment very nearly sparked anger. And it probably would've were you not my friend.

Because I am still forming an opinion, I don't have much to say here (besides what I've already told you in person). There will be more to say, and more to discuss - but for now I will say a few things.

1) I hope that not all men feel that way.
2) I hope that your wife and daughters will have that same view, or there will be a lot of conflict.

I'd call the view narrow minded, but I'll bite my tongue because many feminist are as well. And before I judge, I'll just need to take a careful look at myself.

Pardon me, I am not equiped with the fair-mindedness and vocabulary for an opinion exchange in which I can respect other people's views without agreeing.

It's hard to think of things in less than just right vs. wrong or black vs. white.

I'd love to hear everyone else's responses though. It will help me to formulate my own ideas.  

Posted by Faye

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/09/2005 06:51:00 PM

I agree with you Faye, but I also agree with Mike, and I don't think he said what you think he did. There needs to be an in between. I strongly believe in a gray area is all things. It doesn't have to be black or white.
I want to be a mother, with all my heart. I also love learning. I am not sure if I will use my education, but getting it is what is important to me, not the career/money so much.
Our job as mothers is to teach our children. If we don't have an education, we wont have anything to teach them. In the field that I am in (and your's too) I learn a lot of principles that will help me in raising a family, and in the professional field as well if/when i go into it.
It doesn't matter what I do, it doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't matter what Mike's wife does. All that is important is that we fulfill our plan that God has created for each of us, whatever that may be. 

Posted by Momma Jolley

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/10/2005 02:09:00 AM

All I can say is that Mike better include among the "needs" of the family sufficient life insurance to support his wife and family for the duration in the case of his own demise. 

Posted by Anonymous

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/10/2005 05:55:00 AM

Mike pissed me off too Faye.

When I was at BYU I would get irate when I heard the number of girls dropping out of school to get married and have babies. I thought it was such a waste of potential. Now I see that those girls probably would have picked majors like MFHD or something like that. They are nurturers who were inclide toward children and stuff like that. I don't know one female engineering major who dropped out half way through school. Not saying that one is better than the other, just different.

You seem to be driven and want to pursue grad school. Props to you. Do it. Luckily it isn't a sacrifice that you have to consider making.  

Posted by katie

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/10/2005 07:05:00 AM

Just one more point. Has anyone else ever noticed that when General Authorities come to speak, they always have wives who have a Masters in this, and have studies that? I think they are good examples.
I don't wish to go on to get my masters myself, but I hope to continue in other education as I go along. 

Posted by Momma Jolley

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/10/2005 08:33:00 AM

First of all, for those I pissed off, so be it... I stand resolute in my beliefs... My father certainly didn't have "sufficient life insurance to support his wife and family for the duration in the case of his own demise." But having a mother around meant so much more to us than even the security of our futures. Faye, you say you would almost call my view narrow minded... but in all honesty, can you say you've thought about it as much as I have? There are certain things in life that you have to KNOW your feelings on... and this is one of those things... I feel the way I do because it's a plan that I know works because it worked for me growing up... IF (notice this is an IF/THEN statement!!! DON'T BE IGNORANT AND DISREGARD IT!!! people often ignore the fact that I say IF and get pissed off later by assuming I ALWAYS mean the THEN) by saying "1) I hope that not all men feel that way." you mean everyone else but me, THEN I believe you are the narrow-minded one... For you to write off my idea as foolish immediately is also somewhat narrow-minded. I didn't exactly explain everything given I don't want to tell my life's story... I encourage women getting an education... the objection was to women working while trying to raise a family. I don't want my wife to drop out of college just because we have a family. In fact I would do what I can in order to keep her there as long as she wanted to be. But as long as I am able to provide for all the needs, then I don't want my wife working AND raising children. I'm not saying what you should do Faye, I'm just providing a comment to a subject that I take very seriously and in so doing providing you with another point of view from which you can pull whatever you want. Maybe that will clear some things up for those who get angry easily, like katie. And thanks to Momma Jolley for understanding. :-D 

Posted by Michael

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/10/2005 02:07:00 PM

Mike wrote: IF ... by saying "1) I hope that not all men feel that way." you mean everyone else but me, THEN I believe you are the narrow-minded one... For you to write off my idea as foolish immediately is also somewhat narrow-minded.

IF you mean what you just said, THEN you need to work on reading comprehension. You're entitled to your feelings. Or as you say to KNOW your feelings--whatever epistomological confusion that is.

All she said (I hope not ALL men feel so) was that your personal plan may not work for everyone. She never gainsaid that it had worked for your family, that it will/might work for you, or that it could even work for 99% of people. All it takes is one or two individuals whom your plan fails in order for her caution to be a valid one. In any event, she didn't try to tell all men to do any specific thing. IF you argue that "I hope not everyone agrees with Michael" is narrowminded, THEN it would follow that only "All men should agree with Michael" would not be narrowminded. And that is completely absurd.

Faulty reasoning pointer #2:
Just b/c that worked for your family is no rational basis for the belief that "I know it works because it worked for me growing up".

Let me illustrate: Let X = to have 5 children.
My parents are happy. X is true of them. Your specious reasoning thens implies that: X worked for my family, therefore I KNOW that if I have 5 children I will be happy.

You should be able to see the problem with that.

It may be the case that you, Faye, Mama Jolley, or anyone else follow your parent's example and enjoy a successful, happy, loving family. But there are numerous instances where this outlook has resulted in unhappy, broken, and acrimonious families. Moreover, there are plenty of examples of both parents working and ending with either type of result.

Recommendation: it's great you know what you're looking for. It means that you can tell your prospects up front your expectation and probably find someone who can make that work. But just like the wives of GAs who work, teach, pursue advanced degrees, etc., there are plenty of righteous exemplars who have happy familes. For example, both of my mission presidents' wives were career women (a teacher, and a professor).

In a society where completing college means what completing high school did 30 years ago, and graduate degrees what undergraduate degrees did, you should be aware that 'insurance policies,' adequate education, and career preparation are all reasonable. But not for everyone. Similarly, although GA's may laud the role of loving women who stay at home to teach and raise children, they also laud other types of women and have never expected that all women fit one mold.

So, like I said: I'm glad you know what you want and are vocal about it. You should be, especially where you have such a hardline tack. But it is incredibly myopic to say things like: a "Woman should NOT be pursuing a career while the husband is perfectly capable of supplying all the NEEDS." It almost sounds right, very sly. But not all pursuit of career is the same. (Is going to Medical School wrong for women who aren't married? What if they are married and feel inspired to go? Even if their husbands are 'capable'? What if he's not capable and she is? What if a woman ends her career as soon as she has children--is it still wrong to waste time and money getting MD training? What if she picks up her career after the father dies or leaves the family? Not every woman will have a husband who is capable, faithful, and healthy).

My vote: let's be civil and rational. There is no possible meaning of narrow-minded that would describe Faye's statement above which you so characterize. Narrow-minded more accurately describes attitudes: "Lacking tolerance, breadth of view, or sympathy; petty."--dictionary.com. That seems to describe your comments to a T.

I'm glad you have a great family. And a plan for your life. Just don't try to foist your plan onto others. 

Posted by Foolish. I guess.

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/11/2005 06:37:00 AM

To Foolish, I guess: I suppose you are what you promise... if you really read what I had said, I made NO such attempt to "foist" my plan onto Faye. That would imply I thought I had something with no value... Which maybe you didn't mean to say, but I think you should choose better words in the future. I do have sympathy for faye because she is my friend... And I never said that everyone should agree with me. I think you should check yourself on comprehension before you tell me to be more comprehensive. IF Faye's comment was as I had said it, then there was no error in what I said... You might just be reading too much into it... besides, I'm not even trying to be "sly" by attempting to make what I say sound true... And I already said that I encourage women getting an education and being able to take care of the children in case the husband dies... I also never said that women who work will have unhappy endings... I'm merely expressing MY views... And it isn't like I'm going to be able to do EVERYthing I hope to... I'm simply doing what I can to prepare for an uncertain future... 

Posted by Michael

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/11/2005 07:16:00 AM

let's not degenerate into name-calling. your comprehension accusation ("foist") is baseless. although knowingly deceiving or passing off as genuine is ONE meaning of 'to foist'... so is:

"2. To impose (something or someone unwanted) upon another by coercion or trickery: They had extra work foisted on them because they couldn't say no to the boss." (dictionary.com).

notice the OR. the they need not use trickery to foist. Nor in the example sentence is the work valueless or can 'they' be described as being deceived.

so no, i did not mis-comprehend the term. and no, foist does not imply what you contend it does.

i'm not saying you are necessarily resorting to trickery. I say, at a minimum, that others don't agree with you, and that some of your thoughts as expressed above are not forceful by reason, but more as a sort of strong-arm tactic or appeal to shame perhaps.

it may only be my take, as impartial observer. but once again, saying that it is narrow-minded for someone to hope for a diversity of opinion, that she should hope instead that everyone agree with you... is both sly and coercive. after all, no one wants to be called 'narrow-minded': now that you have told us how to avoid so being, i guess we should just do as you do or as you say.

like i said, i'm happy you have your views and ideals. many share them. but we should be careful not to warn, disparage, or belittle those who maintain that your view is naive, or not the best way, or simply not the best way for everyone.

as for your assertion:
'IF Faye's comment was as I had said it, then there was no error in what I said.'
the reasoning in the previous post stands. perhaps for both of us a more conciliatory and warm tone is in order. i'm not trying to have some ego-struggle to the death here. thus, i don't think that straining at gnats is in order. you have your plan and as long as you aren't telling people it's the best or only way for them, i'm fine with that. i won't foist my opinions on anyone either.  

Posted by foolish

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/11/2005 07:26:00 AM

Never did like gnats... and all the little tricks to avoid them never work either... bleh... So much for wilderness survival 101... :-D 

Posted by Michael

Posted by Anonymous Anonymous 

2/12/2005 01:15:00 PM

I don't understand why all of you are getting so mad with Michael. He's just voicing his opinion. I'm not saying I totally agree with him, but we've been raised differently, my Mum was a working Mum, and that's fine. He's entitled to his opinion, and I to mine, and you to yours.

I want my wife to have an education, in fact I pretty much guarantee I'll marry someone with a degree or at least someone who is in the process of attaining a degree. It'll mean, at the very least, that I'll be able to have some form of intelligible conversation, and it beats the heck out of talking to myself...

Anyways, I believe my wife should have the ultimate choice on whether or no she wants to work while raising a family. My Mum worked and I think all her kids turned out fairly well, my oldest sister is on a mission, my second sister just got married in the temple and my younger sister just graduated high school. I would want my wife to at least have the ability to work in case of financial difficulties.

I would expect, however, at sometime that they would remain home to rear children, at least while they're still very young. As we have been taught, the role of the priesthood holder is to provide for the family, while the woman is responsible for affairs of the home - now that doesn't necessarily mean she needs to be at home at all times, I mean I'd feel for her - how boring would that be? I'm all for equal rights, but we must remember the role of men and women are different.

Now this may be considered a shade of grey, but you must remember while there isn't only a black and white solution, there are still black and while solutions. Some might find them extreme, and they are probably fairly rare, but you must understand that they do exist. Now I don't think Mike's ideals are extreme, they may be close, but he's just saying how he's been raised, how he's enjoyed being raised in this way and how we wishes to raise his family.

Now what I'm about to say is probably VERY hypocritical, though I don't mean it to be, I just need to listen to my own advice every now and then. Anyways, what I want to say is - don't let other people get you angry. That's not going to help, you feel like crap and Mike's opinion hasn't changed. Instead, try and see it from his point of view and maybe you'll begin to understand how he feels. You still won't agree, but at least you won't go berserk at him and you'll form an argument that doesn't make it feel like his ideals are being attacked, as you believe yours to be by his comments.

And Stuff,
~Vasu~

Posted by Blogger Vasu Chetty 

2/13/2005 05:32:00 PM

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!

Posted by Blogger Jared 

2/13/2005 08:01:00 PM

I think the reason so many of us reacted the way we did wasn't because Mike's opinion angered us, but more of the way he voiced it.

Opinions by themselves mostly pose no personal threat. It would be quite an angry world if we all took personal offense to anyone with a different opinion.

What many of us lack, myself included, is the ability to voice our different views in a manner which is tactful and polite, maintaining that respect for others.

That's really hard to convey in just text where tone of voice can't play in the context.

What I feel brings a great deal of maturity to a discussion is a certain level of respect (there's that word again) and open mindedness. Humility is essential. Willing to admit that you don't have all the answers and that you can be wrong helps set a nice tone to any discussion.

Thanks for voicing your opinion, Mike, it certainly produced a great discussion thread right here on my blog. You're a cool friend.

So guys, BE NICE. You can critique his opinion, but lay off any kind of personal attack. I apologize if I sounded less than nice in my retort. I didn't mean it to come out that way.

I would like to defend myself though, in saying that I didn't call you narrow minded. I simply wanted to let you know that it was my first reaction, and then I realized that I was in danger of being narrow minded myself, so I retracted it.

In response to "can you say you've thought about it as much as I have"? Yes, Mike I have. Being a woman, this is directly relevant to me. And I have a couple of years on you *wink*. There's a good possibility that I have thought about it just as much as you have if not more.

Why I don't know my feelings about it yet? You’re making a big assumption there. Just because I am trying to keep my opinions open for change does not mean that that I don’t have one of my own. I do have a general idea on what my feelings are. Otherwise I would not have been sparked to anger by that talk, or by your comments. What I lack is a complete understanding of what my opinion entails. That’s why we’re having this discussion. Being able to organize my general feelings and putting them down in writing solidifies them, like jelly in a mould.

My previous opinion, the one I grew up with my entire life (and I thought it was pretty resolute) was that mothers should always stay at home. My mother didn't get to go to college before. She stayed at home to raise us, and I always talked about how noble a sacrifice it was. And then there was that midlife crisis. She went back to school, and now she is an interior designer. That took a lot of readjusting on my part. I thought it was wonderful that my mother was getting self-fulfillment, but being her child, I wanted to be selfish and say "HEY, WHAT ABOUT US? Being at home with us isn’t enough to make you happy?" The truth is that we've always remained her priority. While being a self-actualized individual, she can't help but be always, first, a mother.

I’ve come to realize that in many situations, there is no clear right or wrong. Sometimes there is good and better, and sometimes there is just different. My mother was a stay-at-home-mom for most of my childhood while most of my friends had mothers who worked. Can you honestly say that I turned out better than all of them? There is no one right way to be a good parent. While some things are always wrong – like beating them up or any kind of sex abuse (of course, that is also based on an assumption – but I trust this is the common consent) because something works in one situation doesn’t mean that it will in another.

There are many ways to do the right thing. What it boils down to in the end is not just WHAT you do but HOW you do it as well.

When I said that I had hoped that not everyone would share your opinion, I wasn’t trying to say that you were wrong. I just hoped that there would be someone out there who would share more of my views for compatibilities sake. It would be terrible being married to a permanent guilt-trip.

Foolish had a point in saying that it probably would be a good idea to vocalize your opinion in order to avoid such a conflict within your marriage.

Foolish, I appreciate your pointing out some of the faulty assumptions, but I do feel that it did might have come out as if it was a personal attack against Mike. I think that we might have made some untrue/hasty assumptions about his opinion. Although, I have a feeling that we could have the same type of discussion if we had been debating on what color the ocean was. I’m glad that’s over with.

Jolley - Thank you for pointing out that an education/career does not have to do with the pursuit of money (the basic assumption here is that choosing money over nurturing a family is a bad thing) but more of a fulfillment of potential. I have learned about the importance of an education from my very own mother. I remember there was a point in my childhood where I didn’t care about school or homework (ok, so it was more like a phase… a very long phase) and I said to my mom “Why? I only want to be a mother anyway!” and it made her so mad. I didn’t understand it.

While I still seek fulfillment in motherhood, my view has certainly changed since then.

It's not that you can't be happy without an education, there are plenty of uneducated people who are happy. But just because you can find happiness living in a slum doesn't mean that it's not a good idea to get out.

To me, true happiness is all about options. Choices. Being in control of your life.

If it be a woman's choice to sacrifice her education to nurture her family, I think that is a very noble cause. I just hope that it is a conscious choice: one that she will choose to make again every day of her life and not look back on in regret.

Katie - I agree that for many women, raising children could very well be their life calling. Their career. Some women are wonderful at it.

My mom would get ticked when people would say that she didn't work. “You think I just sit at home all day doing nothing? Raising children and keeping house is hard work!” I paraphrased a little, but that’s the gist of what she would say. I remember being in 3 grade telling my friends that too. “My mom works! She just works at home!!! Raising children is hard work, you know!”

It’s different kind of work. A different kind of challenge. Some people enjoy it more than others. I just think that everyone should be allowed to choose if that challenge is for them without being judged for it.

Vasu, thank you for bringing up the fact that you were raised by a working mother. Case in point. Vasu is one of the finest people I know. Also, I really appreciate how you pointed out compatibility, companionship and equality. Intelligent conversations. I met someone once (not a member) who had pushed his wife to get a PHD while he was working on his so that he wouldn’t be a step above her. He made plenty of money for the both of them, so she could stay at home and be a mother. But she had a PHD. I think that is wonderful.

All we have been raised with the knowledge that the role of men and women are different. Here’s what I’ve learned in psych: you can’t generalize that most men are like this and most women are like that because the diversity between the men themselves and the women alone is far too great. Likewise, more than focusing on what women should be doing in general, let’s remember to look at it case by case.

Well said, D-Train. Thank you for pointing out the relationship between love and working – especially on the father’s part. If children should be a parent’s priority because you are responsible for the life you bring in, what would be your opinion on men and women who choose not to have children? I realize is a separate issue altogether. They have talked about it on Feminist Mormon Housewives (http://feministmormonhousewives.blogspot.com/2004/11/mastitis-floods-and-opting-out-of.html), along with a whole lot of other things. We’re only skimming the surface. These people have put so much more thought into these matters. Boy do I strive to be like them. .

Thank you for commenting everyone. It certainly has helped me to solidify my view. Everyone attacks each issue from a different angle and it has made the picture clearer for me. I know there are many of you who have read, but have not shared your opinion. Please do.

I’ve changed my mind. While what you do and how you do it is important, I think it’s important for us to look at the consequences. This discussion is purely hypothetical. One day, we will all have to put our opinions into practice. Hopefully, we all can find a way to make them work to yield the best results possible. If not, may we all be open minded enough to change.

Posted by Blogger Fei 

2/15/2005 02:26:00 AM

Whooo! That's a lot of panties in a lot of bunches.

My thoughts:
It depends on each individual. Everyone has different needs to feel secure and safe in life. One woman may feel fine marrying right out of high school and pooping out the young uns, while others may want to wait until they have degrees and the confidence that they can raise the family alone if need be.
Some women may choose to never have children, and help the children of the world in their own way, by having the time to dedicate to causes that women with children do not.
Becoming educated first and bearing children second serves a double purpose as well: it gives a woman time to grow up a little more. I speak from experiance- having my son at the age of 23 was incredibly rough. I thought I was ready but I so WAS NOT. At 30 years old, I have still waited to have another child. I may wait till 35. I may never have more children. At 30 years old, I still have not decided.
Sometimes women have children while they are young, and fall into a role they come to resent. It's not that they don't love their families; they just hadn't had time to discover themselves, and that pull is very strong.
Some women know all they need to know of themselves at 18.
Some can balance motherhood and the growth of their selves without any trouble at all.
To support a husband in life is a beautiful thing. May he remember that her emotional and mental growth is ****equally**** important as well.

Posted by Blogger introspectre 

2/15/2005 02:27:00 AM

(laughs hysterically)
That was supposed to read:
POPPING out the young uns, not POOPING.
My bad.

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